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I've been period free for a year. Insomnia issues: taking supplements (not drugs, recently stopped all drugs except for my thyroid). Hypo-Thyroid: taking Levothyroxine 112. Also, on and off Progesterone cream (4 pumps per night). Struggling with severe joint pain in hands and wrists, started to the month when my periods stopped (been a year now)...a little spotting 6 month's back. I have stopped taking Progesterone on and off due to concern for issue with stubborn yeast infections. I've been on Dyflucan 8 times this year. I am now on a special Phase 1 Diet for 3 months. Still struggling with yeast and vaginal swelling and low sex drive, stinging tongue and a slight discharge, insomnia, fatigue, muscle contractions, night sweats. Frustrated! Not much help from Dr.'s (Gyn, Primary Dr., and a specialist for joint pain). Specialist thinks it could be estrogen caused, so no longer using bio-identical estrogen. I have the testosterone but too scared to try it. My sugar levels are fine. DHEA levels are fine. Other hormones are low (normal for Menopause they say). I have varicose veins so using cream, lower risk of blood clot, I've been told. Weight is 145 at I'm 5'7". I'm 52. Biggest frustrations: Joint pain, Yeast overgrowth, low sex drive (my poor husband), bladder infections, insomnia, inability to lose weight and recently depression because I'm so discouraged. Don't want any more drugs!! Help!!
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Just wanted to chime in here :) I take naturethroid 90 mgs and was recently started on progesterone/biest at 50mgs/.65 respectively, 1 capsule in the morning and 2 at night. After 3 months, I had tingling, numbness in my right hand, then about 2 weeks after that, my hand became swollen and painful. I couldn't hold a pencil or type. When I went to the Dr., the blood work came back with a positive, very high ANA count - that's the lupus antibodies you mention. I came home and looked at some old lab reports. Two had ANA tests from a year ago and about 4 years ago. They were both negative. I think when you're on too much progesterone, it can cause tingling, numbness and hand pain. I think it also caused the positive ANA count.
I also take thyroid med as I mentioned. I think once we're hypo, yeast infections are a problem. (Just FYI, I had radioactive iodine treatment in 2005; been on meds since.) I take a probiotic to replace acidopholus and other good bacteria daily. It has been much more effective at eliminating the yeast infections than anything else. Ask your pharmacist which one they recommend and how much of it you can take. I take 2 times the recommended dose on the package. The pharmacist said it would be alright to do that.
I also have the wrist joint pain sometimes. I had it before progesterone/estrogen. I think it has something to do with an "imbalance" of FT4 and FT3. You might ask your Dr. to run a blood test on your Free T4 and Free T3, not just the TSH. Also, one last thing, when I divide my dose of 90 mgs into one third in the a.m., one third at 2:00 and one third before bedtime, the joint pain disappears! I think my system handles the lower doses of thyroid meds better than the full dose at once!!!
Hope this info helps :) Gotta love the internet!!
August 11, 2010 - 10:41amThis Comment
Hi Cary, hope you don't mind me contacting you again. I'm still trying to settle my pain issues and hoping that perhaps you might have a suggestion/comment regarding my latest experiences with hormone replacement (Menopause).
Seeing my reumatoligist today. Wrist pain comes and goes for no apparent reason. Last week my wrists hurt so bad I couldn't sleep. The next morning I had clear/slightly pink discharge (not a period, but I was thinking that it was, kind of?). One night only. The pain in wrists improved that day and the next. So wondering if it is estrogen related? Or perhaps an Arthritis flare up...which, as I had told you the last blood work up showed, I do not have RA, but perhaps too much estrogen or Osteo-Arthritis??? (Or borderline Lupus?) I'm telling you this because wondering if there is a connection with my "Part 2" question below.
Part 2 of my question: Since the discharge, (overnight spotting), or whatever it was, I've had worse and worse breast pain. My breasts are extremely tender, bumpy/ hard, nipples hard, tinglling, (makes me want to cry). I tried using less Bio-Identical Progesterone 3 pumps (instead of 4) two nights ago and last lowered to 2 pumps (which affected my ability to sleep). Tried 1 pump of estrogen cream (both nights before bed), hoping that it would balance out the pain (as the GYN had suggested). Pain was the worst it's been last night. A little better this morning, but not much. Also, night sweats are back again this week. What am I doing wrong? Perhaps I should skip nights????
Read an article about how using progesterone cream can "wake up" your estrogen. Perhaps this is what is happening? I'm not sure how to fix this. Am I doing the right thing? Going away on a romantic holiday with my hubby next week and with this pain....
Not sure what to add or subtract. My GYN said that it would go away as my body adjusts. It went a away for a while but now it's gotten worse. I'm so confused.
I know I won't be able to get in to see my GYN for a month, and I need relief now. Hoping not to have to stop progesterone cream as it has helping me sleep.
Any suggestions? Thanks so very much.
July 7, 2010 - 10:57amThis Comment
Hi Joann
I think many of your symptoms are related to the continuing dose changes in your hormones. Every time you use more or less or start or stop your body responds to that.
About the wrists-RA is not diagnosed by blood work. You can have sero-negative RA, meaning the RA factor in your blood is zero, but you still have RA. This is very common, which is why RA is diagnosed by physical exam, history, and xray along with blood work, so I'm wondering about that.
Do you have swelling or redness in your wrists or other small joints of your hands and/or feet?
If it is okay with your doctor, anti-inflammatories such as ibuprofen may help with your pain. I would suggest you ask about that. If you aren't at risk for GI bleeds or other interactions with meds, an over the counter drug may decrease the pain enough so you are not as miserable.
I think you should get your gyne on the phone and tell her how miserable you are, and see what she suggests. All of your symptoms other than the wrist pain are clearly hormonal. In your situation I would be tempted to ease off of them altogether. But that's my personal feeling.
I'm sorry I can't tell you definitively what to do. But I think it is reasonable for you gyne to get on the phone and give you some advice before your next visit.
Write any time, you don't have to worry about that. That's what I'm here for. I hope you feel better soon.
July 8, 2010 - 6:27amThis Comment
Hi Cary,
Thank you for the help. It means so much. I was in tears today with frustration! I have been to a rheumatologist, have some antibodies for Lupus (but he said nothing to worry about). I'm being rechecked soon. Nothing showed up that he was concerned about. He checked me for a lot of things. I am hypothyroid but now in normal range around 1.0 (which is normal for me....after lots of trial and error over the years). I have been hypothyroid for over 10 years.
My Primary Physician does not want to give me any more Diflucan.
I have upped to 175 the last few times (the last double dose, a month ago). My GYN saw overgrowth of yeast even though she was doubtful, but I insisted and was right, she was surprised. I know my body. I had a very bad season with bladder infections last May, was on several antibiotics, caused colitis and a trip to bladder specialist, GI specialist, colonoscopy, thrush (took 4 months to get rid of). Have changed my primary physician, after this experience (have seen my new Dr. (a female this time) 3 times).
GYN: prescribed estrogen cream, progesterone cream and testosterone cream. The only one I have stayed with is the progesterone cream. Has helped me sleep. Went off for a 1/2 of week last week. mistake...I'm back on. I felt horrible.
I've been on this special diet (recommended by a friend who is an expert on yeast overgrowth). Doug Kaufmann (Know the Cause show). He has written several books on this issue. I have followed his phase 1 diet for a while now.
When I had thrush, I also took Nystatin (did not phase the thrush at all). Not until I took mega doses of probiotics and went on this special diet for a while. I am taking very good probiotics (two kinds, pearl forms).
The only "drug" I am taking is my thyroid replacement and the
bio-identical progesterone. Supplements: Vitamin C, Magnesium,
Vitamin D (R. Doc said I was low), Calcium , potassium, Gaba, Glycine, fish oil, Thytophan, D-mannose (for bladder health), fiber,
CoQ10, garlic, oregano, coconut oil, grapefruitseed, and a few others rotated to kill yeast. It's been a month since I have taken my last double course of Diflucan.
I have asked about the Progesterone: GYN and Primary Physician..neither one knows. An associate of Mr. Kaufman said that according to his preliminary research, there was a possibility that bio- Progesterone could feed yeast as synthetic does (I have seen on many websites dealing with women's issues that said this is true, along with hormone imbalance and stress and of course sugar and yeast)...but no research on bio-identical progesterone/causing yeast was available...at least that I could find and I looked really hard!!! The swollen vaginal area comes and goes every few days...no connection with supplements. Sometimes, it even hurts!
Making sex unwanted!!! I'm so uncomfortable, and worried about the yeast being passed back and forth. I also try to keep my body alkaline (with lemon juice and ph balancing supplements), because I was told an acid system feeds yeast.
I think that I need a long term Diflucan treatment but my Dr. doesn't want to put my liver in danger, so I keep using the natural stuff and stayed pretty close to this sugar free, yeast free, very low carb diet.
I would love to see a Candida specialist, but this issue is debatable in the medical arena, and don't have any Dr. recommendations.
Hope this is enough info. I think I may have missed a few supplements, but this is pretty much my story. My hormones have been tested and GYN said results:..Normal for Menopause. Normal DHEA, low progesterone, estrogen and testosterone. I have the numbers if that would be helpful. As I said I cannot take too many hormones, really sensitive to medication. Found out the hard way. That's a story for another day. ;). I would appreciate any help you can give me. Praying your resources can help me. Thank you sooooo much!
Joann
Let me know if you need more information. I've been through tons of tests!!
June 21, 2010 - 7:48pmThis Comment
Joann, does your physician know that you are taking the progesterone but not the estrogen? Also, the bio-identical and synthetic hormones really are about the same and have the same side effects. So if a synthetic hormone causes a yeast or other problem, a bio-identical one will as well. That goes the same for risk of blood clots and all that other stuff.
I am just wondering if you have an autoimmune problem, and I think it is a good thing that you are seeing a rheumatologist. Usually consistent yeast overgrowth is related to an immune problem or something like diabetes. The NIH information page mentions this: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/yeastinfections.html.
Here is a link to an explanation of the ANA test that I assume you had for lupus: http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ana/test.html. The joint pain also makes me wonder about autoimmune problems. Lab tests online also has a little section on candida: http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/fungal-2.html.
Here is a study on candida overgrowth and HRT: http://www.ejog.org/article/S0301-2115%2804%2900053-3/abstract.
I suggest you be aggressive with the rheumatologist. I also think you might benefit from a consult with a licensed nutritionist, and an infectious disease doctor. I don't feel at all confident that the progesterone is causing the yeast problem.
I'm going to keep my eye out for more studies, because I find this interesting. Most of them show no connection, but I will pass along any information I come across. We have a page on yeast/candida hypersensitivity: https://www.empowher.com/media/reference/candidayeast-hypersensitivity-syndrome.
I'm sorry I'm not of more help to you, but I hope you will keep us posted on your journey because I think it will help others.
June 25, 2010 - 1:43pmThis Comment
Cary, just to comment on your post. Bio-identical hormones or not the same of synthetic hormones. They have a different molecular structure. Just like water, H2O and hydrogen peroxide, H2O2. Some things are good for us and some are not.
August 19, 2010 - 10:19amSynthetic hormones are patentable but bio-ident hormones are naturally occuring and can not be patented. Please do not miss inform your patients. Google BHRT and do some reading.
Louanne Hughey RN BSN
This Comment
Thank you, Cary, I will read and research some more. Yes, I will continue to ask more questions of my Dr.'s. I have thought of pushing for permission to see an infectious disease Dr. (we talked about it), but the Dr. she recommended is not part of my HMO, and she wasn't sure of the name of the person in my area who was, at least familiar with yeast issue. And, of course, more out of pocket expenses, but maybe I will have to consider. I will pursue your suggestion at my next appointment with my Primary Physician in a couple of months.
I do not have diabetes. My sugar is normal (although it runs in my family). I have my sugar checked several times a year, because I have been concerned/aware of this and yeast connection. Just recently checked (non-fasting 98).
I am on a really good healthy diet right now. My Dr's are aware of
what I am eating. I am also at a healthy weight. If what you said is true about the hormones, perhaps this is what causing my problem. Please, pursue.....not just for me, but for others! :) With Yeast issues showing up more these days, someone will need to find an answer for those of us that need to take hormones to survive Menopause transition. But if it causes other issues, we are really in a bad place, it is VERY frustrating and uncomfortable. Do not want to return to sleep meds (progesterone helps).. been there done that for years. Finally, done with meds for sleep. They stop working and make you feel yucky.
My "R Doc" said that the extra Estrogen might be causing my hand/wrist pain. And also said that sometimes that joint pain can be caused by hypothyroid (which I am not right now). My GYN had told me that Bio-identical Estrogen has a risk of blood clots, as synthetic, but a little less risk, because you can use less (have a bit more control with the cream). So maybe she is not right?
Again, thanks for the help. I'll keep you posted. And FYI, I read many websites offering help for Yeast Overgrowth (by Dr.'s. nurses, homeopathic, neopathic Dr.'s as well), that said that according to their experience and research, the use of the Birth Control Pill (or synthetic hormones replacement therapy) CAN causes Yeast Overgrowth (and hormone imbalance in some women.....and since I'm fluctuating because of Menopause, could be part of the problem as well). (PS: FYI....E Coli has been addressed as well). I think I've read close to 50 sites or more, trying to help myself. As I said, I tried stopping my Progesterone and felt terrible, so back on my bio-identical progesterone for now. And yes, my Dr. knows that I am on Progesterone only. I was on it for almost a year (alone), before starting the bio-estrogen (which I took for only a few weeks). I tried testosterone for one week, yikes!
Hoping that by posting our dialogue that maybe someone out there will read and share their experiences/solutions. My Primary Physician said there is not enough research done on the Bio-identicals yet. True or not...help is not here for me yet. :) :(. I can't tell you how much it means to have your help. God bless you!
Blessings,
June 25, 2010 - 7:47pmJoann
This Comment
Thank you. I have rheumatoid arthritis, and hormones affect that, too. When women are pregnant they tend to have remissions, and when they are not they are more likely to flare up. So I know the estrogen/joint pain thing is an issue.
This kind of thing is so frustrating, because it seems there is no fantastic answer, or if there is, we can't find it! Thank you so much for sharing. We'll just keep sharing information and we'll figure something out, I'm sure.
June 25, 2010 - 8:06pmThis Comment
Thanks, and sorry about your arthritis (have you heard of the home remedy "rum and raisins". I tried it for a while and it did seemed to help, even if I only thought it did. :)! LOL). Interesting about the RA and pregnancy. Maybe the joint pain will eventually show up as RA...although, the Dr. says no for now.... But interesting that it showed up the same time my periods actually stopped. Never had it before. So thanks for sharing that interesting fact.
Sorry to write so much, guess I'm hoping that the details will help someone else (not just me)...."us girls need to help each other out" :)!!! You have been very helpful.
Take care,
June 25, 2010 - 11:48pmJoann
This Comment
I'm looking into this, and will get back to you!
June 23, 2010 - 10:01amThis Comment