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ask: Have you had experience with the Wiley Protocol?

By Diane Porter
 
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Has anyone had experience using the Wiley Protocol of hormone replacement therapy?

It is a method where bioidentical hormones are prescribed and are given transdermally -- through the skin -- in a patent-pending cream. A primary

difference between this protocol and some others is that the hormonal levels rise and fall, similar to the way a woman's normal cycle did when she was still menstruating.

There is some controversy on the web about T.S. Wiley's qualifications for developing a medical protocol, since she is not a doctor herself, she studied anthropology (though she co-authored the book "Sex, Lies, and Menopause" with Julie Taguchi, M.D.)

Some women claim wonderful results; others claim very troubling side effects. Does anyone out there have personal experiences to share?

Add a Comment241 Comments

EmpowHER Guest
Anonymous

I have been on the wiley protocol for almost 4 yrs. Im on p4 (progesterone pills plus 200 more mg pill. my max dose day day 20-21 is 500 mg. my estrogen is W+3. and I take 3 mg testosterone. My weight used to be 140-141 before wiley. Now I am 151-152 at 5'4 Im heavy. My stomach is big and Ive got a fat in places like bikini line that I never had before. Before wiley I was not interested in sex with my husband. I had vaginal dryness (extreme) and my hair was falling out. I never slept more than 2 hrs at a time. and had to go pee every few hours at night. Now I sleep well, my hair grows a inch a month. I have great libido and no more dryness... down there its like being 25 again. The downside.. during peak progesterone Im sleepy.. very groggy.. But my Dr states that I just need to take it earlier. She said my levels are perfect now. whatever that is suppose to mean as I don't know what wiley perfect levels are.. I am very very scared of the cancer issue. I even lie to my gyn because she told me Im playing with fire with wiley. Huge concern of mine. My husband wants me to stay on it.. I am going to see another bio identical Dr soon and see what she says. I do believe it keeps you young. I have no osteopenia, my labs are ok, It supposedly prevent breast and cervical cancer. So Im not sure. Wishing I could find a good wiley support group Jillian RN

July 1, 2014 - 9:23am
Menopause Moxie (reply to Anonymous)

I'm a Wiley Protocol Consultant and Educator until we were able to fix the flaws of this protocol. I've been on the Wiley Protocol for 7 years and educated physicians and mid-levels on the Wiley Protocol. This protocol has clinical flaws that Wiley has never been able to fix because she not a physician, she never took the protocol to the clinic. There are a handful of clinical flaws of the Wiley Protocol that have been ironed out and fixed since a doctor in a clinic was able to fix them. Because so many things needed to be changed and updated, the name had to be changed. Wiley has a patent on one level of dosing but we found that dosing wasn't effective enough to fix all the problems women were having. The Panacea Protocol is now the most advanced form of rhythmic dosing optimal HRT, and is considered 4th Generation HRT, whereas the Wiley Protocol is considered 3rd Generation HRT.

You are at greater risk of cancer the less estrogen you have. Estrogen protects the body against cancer, not the other way around. That's why women get cancer AFTER their estrogen declines, not when they have enough like when women are in their twenties.

Be careful of which doctor you go to for HRT because they don't teach it in med school, and the A4M only teaches 2nd Generation HRT. Wiley has no formal clinical training available so ask your doctor where they got their education and training in HRT.

If your doctor wants to be trained in the Panacea Protocol (or Wiley Protocol), let me know and I can forward you that information. Training is funded by the Panacea Sciences Foundation for HRT Research.

The Estrogen Girls Club on Facebook is a Wiley and Panacea Protocol Support Group. List any questions and I will be happy to answer them for you.

July 7, 2014 - 2:12pm
EmpowHER Guest
Anonymous

I'm on it for 3 years already- I started actually about 8 years ago with just P and T- in 1/8 of a dose and slowly increased them as I moved into a perimenopause. Slowly, I started to add some estrogen too. When I nearly missed my period for the first time (it was 15 days late), I immediately called my doctor and said that I'm ready for the full protocol. It's been wonderful so far, in fact, I feel much better - no PMS, etc., than when I was in my 20ies and on my own hormones. I don't share my experience with real life women as I don't want to be 1. questioned and criticised/warned, 2. to reveal my age- I look as someone in her early 30ies and prefer to be taken for such. I heard that many women have problems with the protocol- it seems they all have some underlying problems- I took care of my adrenal deficiency before I went on the protocol. They also blast the high doses after years of deficiencies- and their bodies just can't take it. Even my doctor advised to start the protocol right away- and so does Wiley herself- but I listened to my gut and started super-slowly, replacing only what was missing- and I judged mostly by my symptoms, with my bloodwork being only a very broad guideline. I'd highly recommend the protocol to all women over ~35, starting with the low doses first- but only if they are in good health to start with, are not overweight (hormones, esp. P accumulates in fat), and also have good instincts, willing to learn and to advise their doctors- and have doctors willing to listen.

June 22, 2014 - 9:52am
Debv

Jake, the comment to which you're replying does not imply that your mother's protocol *caused* the cancer in this case. But clearly it failed to prevent it.

And if anyone believes that T.S. Wiley has never suggested "to the general public" that her protocol prevents cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, ... -- just combine any or all of those with "wiley protocol" in a Google search.

May 25, 2012 - 2:19pm
nanashana

I find it interesting Anonymous person, that you are putting SO MUCH energy into trying to dis The Wiley Protocol, and without identifying yourself or giving any credible references to your accusations. Go away and peddle your death generating words somewhere else where people are stupid enough to listen to you.

May 22, 2012 - 8:06am
EmpowHER Guest
Anonymous

So I learned that the Boulder, CO osteopath who hawked the WP to hundreds of women (and used it herself) now has breast cancer.

May 22, 2012 - 6:55am
jakeWP (reply to Anonymous)

We have an oncologist who treats breast cancer patients with the Wiley Protocol. We have NEVER suggested the Wiley Protocol prevents or treats breast cancer to the general public, but to suggest it causes it is completely without merit, or evidence. It is given to breast cancer patients today because over 10 years we see no increased recurrence or aggression in breast cancer in patients given the Wiley Protocol, and they can actually live their lives on chemo. It's a beautiful thing, and the study is being made ready for publication as we speak. If we didn't have detractors or people trying to put us down, it would mean we weren't doing anything important.

Are you an oncologist? Perhaps you would like to speak to one about breast cancer and the Wiley Protocol. We take these concerns (or in this case accusations) very, very seriously.

Jake Raden
Wiley Systems

May 22, 2012 - 10:32am
nanashana

I didn't see where Jake blamed it on the patient, Anonymous person. His response was respectful and informative. It seems to me that your response is defensive and angry, though I appreciated the link and read the document posted there. I'm not so concerned about bioethical standards set by the government with regard to companies producing natural alternative health products which pharmacies can't patent and thus profit from. The short report from your link above was from a study at a university which gets funding from pharmaceutical companies (http://www.research.uky.edu/ospa/info/clinical_info.html). The study states "A content analysis of relevant documents was conducted, followed by telephone interviews with investigators and former participants to verify facts." After this extensive investigation (I say that facetiously) the stated conclusion is there are clinical ethics breaches from The Wiley Protocol. Hello? Did anyone bother to interview current Wiley Protocol users? Nope. Here's MY experience:

I've been on the Wiley Protocol for almost 3 years now after going through menopause and it changed my life for the better. I feel healthier, sexier and happier than I have EVER been in my life. When I was young I had horrible PMS and endometriosis. I don't have any of those issues with my cycle now. It is truly amazing and wonderful for me. I'm so thankful to have found this remarkable protocol and plan to use it for as long as I possibly can. Here is a link that can verify who I am and that my testimony is true (notice the date): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKYYhCYM-aw

May 15, 2012 - 10:51am
jakeWP

To stop the Wiley Protocol, you simply stop it. There are no more complicated instructions than that. If you'll be moving to a lower dose static regimen, work with your doctor perhaps to move into that regimen.

For there record, there is no science or data, peer-reviewed or published, which points to any action of the body to "store progesterone in thigh tissue". If this was a real thing, we would change the Wiley Protocol to address it. But it's not. Your body excretes exogenously applied sex steroid hormones in under 72 hours. In progesterone specifically, it even states pretty clearly, even on Wikipedia, that the half-life is 55 hours at the top-end, which is just over 2 days. See for yourself, look at the "pharmocokinetic" box: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progesterone

Without the high progesterone of the Wiley Protocol, you run a serious risk of not halting tissue growth from the estrogen which raises the specter of a lot of things going wrong in your body, from osteo-related issues to cancer. That's why we put the progesterone in there: it's not to make your life miserable, it's because it's the bio-mimetic thing to do. You need both hormones. Some physicians familiar with WP may reduce the progesterone dose slightly (-1 or -2 lines) at their discretion. I encourage any of you struggling with the luteal phase to speak with your doctor about that.

Saliva testing is mostly useful for cortisol testing. There are no established, accurate reference ranges in saliva for female sex steroid hormones and therefore we do not recommend it.

We do wish you all of the best whether you're on the WP, another BHRT regimen, or whatever your personal health choices are.

I do wish some of you would try not to badmouth a system that works for thousands of women over 10 years just because your experience wasn't perfect, or even was particularly frustrating. Were doing our best to do our part to make forward progress in the area of female health. If hormones were easy and worked predictably in everyone, they would be Over the Counter (OTC) like aspirin. But they're not and they don't. Please bear in mind, the 10,000 or so very happy patients on WP don't generally post on the internet about how happy they are, except very occasionally. If you want your experience to mean something on the Wiley Protocol for women everywhere, be it positive or negative, please send any adverse reactions with pertinent details to oncologist@thewileyprotocol.com. This way we can be aware of what happened, look for trends, and try to continue to improve everyday.

I try to leave this thread for patients to talk, but occasionally I feel it's warranted to step in and try to address what to us are misconceptions.

Regarding it being difficult, it is harder than taking a multivitamin, that's true. But until someone invents something that doesn't exist allowing us to slowly give hormones over time in a way that is variable and not static, the creams are the best we can do. They're far better than any other option available today for delivering the hormones with the least unintended consequences. If you're worried about carcinogenic metabolites, eating hormones as pills and trochees is the best way to generate those. Your liver and digestive system do lots of interesting things to hormones that you eat. The whole point of trans-dermal is to avoid first pass in the gut.

I see a lot of issues here that would be remedied by all of you, the patients, having better and more complete information. If you're a Wiley Protocol patient, I really want to urge you to find us on Facebook, sign up for our consumer newsletter, and/or follow T.S. Wiley's new radio show. The more informed you are, the more likely you'll find what works for you, whether it's the Wiley Protocol, or something else. Even if you're not on Wiley Protocol, we address a large range of women's health issues in all of those places, we don't just talk about WP. See for yourself.

Jake Raden
General Manager, Wiley Systems

May 14, 2012 - 10:31am
EmpowHER Guest
Anonymous (reply to jakeWP)

Of course. Blame it on the patient. That has consistently been the WP response to those who experience outrageous side effects. I "stopped" the WP and experienced two weeks of severe body aches and pain, kidney swelling (confirmed by an ultrasound in the ER), horrific migraines, brain fog and hyper-emotionality. My new, hormone-literate doc explained that he has worked with many women coming off the WP who all experience similar debilitating side effects. Health professionals I have spoken with re: WP all agree that the dosing levels are off-the-charts, and little is known about these levels of hormone, even in the form of BHRT. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18551081 for more information. Buyer beware.

May 14, 2012 - 12:18pm
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